On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Sean Whalen wrote: > > --- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Sean Whalen wrote: > > > > > > [re Tortaalik. Radical snippage] > > > > > Allistar wants to get rid of him by forcing him to > > step down (in favor > > > of Noima or Allistar). > > > > Textev? > > Well, there isn't a description exactly matching this. In _The Phoenix > Guards_ there's no scene where all the plots are exactly described and > all the actions explained. In fact, I'm pretty sure that some of the > information given is the result of editing mistakes or changes in the > plot from one draft to another. That's an interesting thesis - though I see no evidence for it. > I think my interpretation is very probable only if there can be multiple > Emperors per reign. If not, then Allistar just wanted to become Noima's > lover and use her influence for his own ends. However, this leaves him > vulnerable to being exposed (and his attentions weren't exactly secret) > and risking execution or banishment. We know from _FHYA_ that several courtiers ran the same risk successfully. > In any other story it would be almost taken for granted that he wanted > to marry the Queen, remove the King and take over. Only because of the > question of one to one match-up between Emperors and reigns would this > not be something Illista and Allistar would try for. A) This isn't any other story and B) it would depend on the story. Noima is the Consort - we don't know if that puts her in the line of succession. Allistar might want to father a royal child. He might want more influence at court through Noima's affections. He might be planning to blackmail Noima. Noima might be entirely uninvolved for all I know. > I've argued before that there can be more than one Emperor per reign > (and that there is only one Phoenix Reign per cycle, almost always taken > by a decadent Phoenix). It makes sense Tortaalik's sister tried to kill > him with poison to become Empress (and did it ninety years into his > reign), not that he would be comatose. So he's comatose - so what? Maybe the Orb makes an exception in that case. Or not - but she's really irresponsible. Maybe the Orb can be run by another if the Emperor is incapacitated. Or maybe he's just weakened, and has to leave most decisions up to his entourage. Maybe the sister wanted to come forward at the last moment with an antidote and play the hero. Maybe she's nuts or stupid - early-onset decadence. Maybe the Orb's smart enough to realize the Emperor just got murdered and the Cycle just changed. Maybe Paarfi's confused about the dates. Maybe the sister had a deal with the Dragon Heir. Maybe she thought someone else would get blamed for the attempt, that T would never suspect her. Maybe Paarfi's lying - maybe T never became decadent, but this version suits Sethra. Note that you're assuming the sister is in the line of succession and that there is a hard/fast rule of 17**2 years as well as the multi-bite. If you can find a reference to the sister as Phoenix Heir I'll be impressed. But wasn't Loudin the logical heir (if she was alive?) possibly already being the Princess? Note that according to pg 320 of _FHYA_ [found via http://world.std.com/~mam/Cracks-and-Shards/deaths.html#Zerikas_Parentage ], Loudin was the Phoenix Heir just before the Interregnum. Here I think is the first fair bit of evidence for the multi-emperor thesis. I don't think it's very strong - one word - and perhaps just indicative of a ceremonial position.