On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, J C wrote: @> Nature is the one thing that we all belief we're separate from, or "above". @> But guess what, we're not. We act according to human NATURE. We cannot @> avoid acting according to human NATURE. Ironically enough, part of that @> human NATURE is a tendency to be arrogant and elitist. The sense in which the word 'Nature' is being used here (by, I think, all involved parties) is explicitly: A primitive state of existence, untouched and uninfluences by civilization or artificiality. That isn't an argument that civilization is unnatural, it's just a word being used to describe a state of being without civilization. It's just kind of unfortunate that we don't have more words to play with here. (Speaking of which, what you've got there is an equivocation: the word nature in 'human nature' doesn't mean the same thing as the word nature in 'get back to nature'. Arguing on that basis is a fallacy.)