On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 15:02:06 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > > >> > Mark A. Mandel <thnidu at yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > --- David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b at dd-b.net> wrote: >> > > >> > > > The fact that I dealt with German as a language learned as an >> > > > adolescent, not as a child, may be warping my view here. But >> > > > it seems to me that everything about grammar they taught us >> > > > in English there was some German equivalent, and then there >> > > > was about three times that much *additional* stuff that >> > > > applied only to German, not to English. >> > > >> > > But that doesn't count the sh*tloads that you never had to >> > > learn as a native speaker of English because native speakers >> > > don't get it wrong, but that L2 learners have to learn by >> > > study. For example: >> > > >> > > Give the big blue book to Jane. -- fine >> > > Give it to Jane. -- fine >> > > Give Jane the big blue book. -- fine >> > > Give Jane it. -- WRONG!!! > >Just a comment that this strikes me as being in David's "there was some >German equivalent" category - "gib mir das Buch" ok, "gib mir es" not. >Similarly, donne Philip le livre -> donne-le-lui. Which of > Je le lui donne. > Je donne le lui. > Je lui le donne. > Je donne lui le. >is correct? > > >Also for the record I've checked with a linguist of my acquaintance who >suspects (again based on mostly anecdotal info from non-native speakers) >that English is relatively easy to learn. I'm still interested in seeing >a study disproving/confirming that. Is it possible that *basic English* is easy to learn, but fluency is hard? To go back a few examples, while "Give Jane it" is technically wrong, few native speakers would have trouble understanding the meaning, particular in context. I found the gendered nouns in French and German to be a nightmare. Why is a table feminine (or is it masculine), and why so many bloody articles?