How will House Phoenix arise from the ashes?

Davdi Silverrock davdisil at gmail.com
Tue Dec 13 17:57:42 PST 2005

On 12/13/05, Jon Lincicum <lincicum at comcast.net> wrote:
> Davdi Silverrock wrote:
> > Hmm. Precisely because they crossbreed without any restriction at all?
> > The whole point of maintaining House purity is because that's the only
> > way the the Cycle can really be maintained.
> >
> That kinda seems like making too much stew from one oyster to me. We
> don't know for sure that they don't respect the cycle just because of
> their breeding habits. I think it was Loiosh who said "A whole Island
> full of /Teckla/?" Which might imply that they aren't really crossbreeds
> at all (or maybe don't consider themselves to be such) but rather,
> simply not members of the "noble" houses.

The full exchange between Loiosh and Vlad is:

[Begin Cite]

"A whole island of Teckla," said Loiosh.
"If you want to look at it that way."
"They have no Houses."
"So maybe they're all Jhereg."

[End Cite]

However, neither of them really knows (or, for that matter, cares). 
So I wouldn't put that much weight on those comments.

And, just to point out: It is my understanding - which I grant may be
wrong - that Teckla have House purity as well.

One of the things that has not been explained in the text (so far as I
know) is what the rules and attitudes are towards *breeding* with
those who have joined a House, given how important House purity is. 
So, I don't think any Dzur father would have been happy to marry their
daughter off to Mellar, even if he *was* a Dzur by their House rules.

Would a Teckla father want his daughter to marry an Easterner who
joined the House?
Hm.  I am not sure how it is all supposed to work.

> I also like the idea that the inhabitants of Elde and Greenaere may be
> descendants of the tribes that "didn't make it". That seems like a
> pretty "cool" idea.
> >But the whole *point* of Norathar joining the Jhereg was that, as far
> >as she knew (and whoever raised her knew), she *was* a crossbreed.
> >
> >
> >
> Hmmm. Good point. However, while we know that Norathar's lineage was
> "questionable", we don't exactly know in which WAY it was questionable.
> It doesn't absolutely follow that she was considered a cross-breed... It
> may be that they simply though she was of the "wrong" Dragon lineage.

In this case, there is textev for the crossbreedness accusation:

Sethra Lavode, infodumping to Norathar: "To be blunt, I received word
that you were a bastard. I'm sorry, but that's what I was told. [...]
I was further told that your true father was not a Dragon."

> >However, to answer your question:  During the Interregnum, I think we
> >can be pretty certain that there were no full-breed Phoenix anywhere
> >besides Zerika.  I mean, someone would have *said*, "What about all
> >those Phoenix that didn't have a phoenix fly past at their birth?
> >Don't they count, even a little?"
> >
> Perhaps. But then, with the Empire (and apparently the cycle) broken,
> they simply may not have stopped to consider that it might be important.

Yet *after* the Empire is restored, Zerika is said specifically to
have been the only member of her House.  No alleged "unheralded"
Phoenix were even hinted at.

> >>I've noticed that every time Vlad thinks the Dragaerans are being
> >>metaphorical, he seems to be mistaken.
> >
> >Can you cite an example?
> >
> Well, I guess I'm mostly thinking of the "Dragaeran birth control"
> statements. But there's also his response to Sethra's "Become part of
> the Rock of Dzur Mountain" comment. Admittedly, we don't really know if
> he's really "wrong" in either instance, but it is strongly implied that
> he may be.

Um.  It sounds like you meant "literal" rather than "metaphorical". 
Or perhaps I have misunderstood?

Besides, we never find out the truth of that statement.  Given that
this *is* Sethra, perhaps she was being metamorphical.

> I guess *I'm* making too much stew out of one oyster this time.

I nearly think!

> Still, it seems like Dragaerans in general have no real problem with
> casual sex across houses, it's just the idea of *marriage* (or producing
> offspring) with someone of another house that gets them.

Well, more or less.  I have never suggested otherwise.

The salacious scene I suggested wasn't just casual sex, but a wild
orgy.  And, as I was trying to imply, the Phoenix  wife was not caring
enough to cast the contraceptive spell, which is what makes it
*really* dirty to Dragaerans.

> Still, it's hard to imagine who would have the strongest claim to
> Zerika's inheritance. Laszlo? I have trouble buying that one.

Perhaps the family of her foster parents?  Something else for Dragons
to fight over...