On 12/13/05, Jon Lincicum <lincicum at comcast.net> wrote: > Davdi Silverrock wrote: > > > Hmm. Precisely because they crossbreed without any restriction at all? > > The whole point of maintaining House purity is because that's the only > > way the the Cycle can really be maintained. > > > That kinda seems like making too much stew from one oyster to me. We > don't know for sure that they don't respect the cycle just because of > their breeding habits. I think it was Loiosh who said "A whole Island > full of /Teckla/?" Which might imply that they aren't really crossbreeds > at all (or maybe don't consider themselves to be such) but rather, > simply not members of the "noble" houses. The full exchange between Loiosh and Vlad is: [Begin Cite] "A whole island of Teckla," said Loiosh. "If you want to look at it that way." "They have no Houses." "So maybe they're all Jhereg." [End Cite] However, neither of them really knows (or, for that matter, cares). So I wouldn't put that much weight on those comments. And, just to point out: It is my understanding - which I grant may be wrong - that Teckla have House purity as well. One of the things that has not been explained in the text (so far as I know) is what the rules and attitudes are towards *breeding* with those who have joined a House, given how important House purity is. So, I don't think any Dzur father would have been happy to marry their daughter off to Mellar, even if he *was* a Dzur by their House rules. Would a Teckla father want his daughter to marry an Easterner who joined the House? Hm. I am not sure how it is all supposed to work. > I also like the idea that the inhabitants of Elde and Greenaere may be > descendants of the tribes that "didn't make it". That seems like a > pretty "cool" idea. > > >But the whole *point* of Norathar joining the Jhereg was that, as far > >as she knew (and whoever raised her knew), she *was* a crossbreed. > > > > > > > Hmmm. Good point. However, while we know that Norathar's lineage was > "questionable", we don't exactly know in which WAY it was questionable. > It doesn't absolutely follow that she was considered a cross-breed... It > may be that they simply though she was of the "wrong" Dragon lineage. In this case, there is textev for the crossbreedness accusation: Sethra Lavode, infodumping to Norathar: "To be blunt, I received word that you were a bastard. I'm sorry, but that's what I was told. [...] I was further told that your true father was not a Dragon." > > >However, to answer your question: During the Interregnum, I think we > >can be pretty certain that there were no full-breed Phoenix anywhere > >besides Zerika. I mean, someone would have *said*, "What about all > >those Phoenix that didn't have a phoenix fly past at their birth? > >Don't they count, even a little?" > > > Perhaps. But then, with the Empire (and apparently the cycle) broken, > they simply may not have stopped to consider that it might be important. Yet *after* the Empire is restored, Zerika is said specifically to have been the only member of her House. No alleged "unheralded" Phoenix were even hinted at. > >>I've noticed that every time Vlad thinks the Dragaerans are being > >>metaphorical, he seems to be mistaken. > > > >Can you cite an example? > > > Well, I guess I'm mostly thinking of the "Dragaeran birth control" > statements. But there's also his response to Sethra's "Become part of > the Rock of Dzur Mountain" comment. Admittedly, we don't really know if > he's really "wrong" in either instance, but it is strongly implied that > he may be. Um. It sounds like you meant "literal" rather than "metaphorical". Or perhaps I have misunderstood? Besides, we never find out the truth of that statement. Given that this *is* Sethra, perhaps she was being metamorphical. > I guess *I'm* making too much stew out of one oyster this time. I nearly think! > Still, it seems like Dragaerans in general have no real problem with > casual sex across houses, it's just the idea of *marriage* (or producing > offspring) with someone of another house that gets them. Well, more or less. I have never suggested otherwise. The salacious scene I suggested wasn't just casual sex, but a wild orgy. And, as I was trying to imply, the Phoenix wife was not caring enough to cast the contraceptive spell, which is what makes it *really* dirty to Dragaerans. > > Still, it's hard to imagine who would have the strongest claim to > Zerika's inheritance. Laszlo? I have trouble buying that one. Perhaps the family of her foster parents? Something else for Dragons to fight over...