How will House Phoenix arise from the ashes?

Jon_Lincicum at stream.com Jon_Lincicum at stream.com
Wed Dec 14 10:14:28 PST 2005

"Scott Schultz" <scott at cjhunter.com> 
Sent by: dragaera-bounces at dragaera.info
11/14/05 09:46 AM

"'Dragaera'" <dragaera at dragaera.info>

RE: How will House Phoenix arise from the ashes?

>Well, yes, I shan't deny the validity of that. I was trying to avoid 
>simply contrary and asking "Where is the textex that Zerika I was a 
>Phoenix?" There isn't any, making the question moot because it leaves the
>discussion in the exact state it was in previously.

Well, not entirely. It establishes that the question of her status is 
entirely open for debate; which is in stark contrast to the comment 
"Zerika is *not* a reborn Phoenix" which is what I was objecting to. 

Now, if you want to say that "I don't think she was, because..." or "This 
evidence makes me suspect she was not..." you'll ellicit an entirely 
different reaction, and we'll probably get some good discussion out of it.

>If you want to get logical about it and you won't accept the premises 
>"the Houses were born at the founding of the Empire" 

I believe that Sethra has some comments in Issola that say that even AFTER 
the Empire was founded, the tribes didn't really start thinking about 
themselves as "houses" until some time after this (like even 2 or 3 
cycles). Paarfi has some comments in PotD that even hint that the 
Dragaerans didn't even recognize that they had an empire until about 4 
cycles into it, when they "..suddenly realized it had been an Empire all 

The bottom line on this point is that while the transition from "tribes" 
to "houses" was a fairly gradual process, as was the transition from 
"nomadic bands of Dragaerans" to "Empire". And while it is entirely 
possible that both events happened in conjunction with one another, 
there's too much time (tens of thousands of years, by my count) 
unaccounted for to know if the two events ("founding the empire" and 
"becoming proper houses") are really connected in any significant way. 
They are only "contemporary to each other" when viewed from hundreds of 
thousands of years in the future.

>Something to keep in mind though - The end of the Great Cycle and the
>appearance of the Reborn Phoenix was not an event related to the death 
>rebirth of House Phoenix. It was an event related to the death and 
>of The Empire. Given that, I can't see how Zerika I could possibly be a
>Reborn Phoenix. She was simply First.

Hmm... Interesting distinction here. Did the cycle of decay and rebirth of 
the Phoenix begin with the start of the Empire, or the start of the cycle 
itself?  I guess we don't really know this for sure... But I think my 
personal view is that this is a mystical aspect of the cycle, rather than 
any transitory human influence. A Phoenix is a mystical creature (at least 
in our culture) so at least this explanation makes a certain amount of 
sense, even if it is unsubstantiated.