Good lord, some of you people talk a lot. OTOH, that's what I'm here for, so you don't hear me bitching -too- hard... All right. Consider that I don't have my books, so I can't give you specific locations. However, I have a -quite- good memory of things I've read (and enjoyed), so ... topics in no particular order, save that they occur to me in that order, and (maybe) I'm trying to fit them into the timeline. Gobs and gobs of spoilers, so here's your spoiler space. 17 traditional Great Weapons, a whole host of Morganti blades. It is clear (from commentary -- Kragar's?) that the Morganti weapon was the Serioli plan for the elimination of war, and maybe murder, too -- make the idea of killing someone so repugnant ('cause you're destroying their 'immortal soul') that the entire concept of war/murder becomes anathemic to your society. The Great Weapons don't exist, just 'regular' Morganti blades. Considering the timeline: I'd give a 95% chance this happened BEFORE the arrival of humans (Easterners) on Dragaera; if it'd happened before that, then the Serioli would have been willing to accept the existence of the human colonists amongst them. (Besides, humans are clearly widespread, while Dragaerans are, for the most part, centrally located. More on this in a bit.) It is possible, however, that it happened shortly -after- the arrival of the colony, but only if the Serioli are functionally immune to Morganti blades, as follows: war began between colonists and Serioli, and the weapons which the Serioli forged -- for -all- 'sharp artifacts of steel' made by the Serioli are Morganti, because that's the (maybe only?) way they make knives/swords/spears/etc. -- did more than just kill their opponents, it destroyed their comparatively weak spirits. The Serioli, horrified by this 'capability' of their weapons, withdraw and 'surrender', offering peaceful co-existence with the humans. (Humans, hereafter, spread throughout the world, generally mixing their villages with Serioli villages, etc. etc.) There were still, I imagine, a few zones where there are nothing but Serioli villages, and others where there are nothing but human residences. Please note -- for this suggestion of mine, Serioli don't make ordinary kitchen knives; ALL of their implements are (as such) Morganti. It's just the way they make things, the attention to crafting, the 'power' of themselves. The 'desire to cut' that is the ordinary Morganti weapon is, for these purposes, more a simple design philosophy; you want an edge that WANTS to cut, just as much as you would want a wheel that WANTS to turn, or a candle that WANTS to burn. Then the Jenoine show up. Immensely powerful, they form their own enclave, with which to experiment on the 'surrounding critters'. In this case, the primary 'surrounding critter' was the human; clearly sentient, they were a perfect subject for experimentation. The Serioli, having long since reached their 'no more war' policy, maybe send in a few protests, but they're not at the same power level as the Jenoine, so the Jenoine tell 'em to bite it before returning to their experiments. The Serioli shrug, and wander off. Humans aren't -that- high on their important list, and it's not like the Jenoine are destroying their souls, right? Then we have a big kaboom, a Great Sea of Chaos, a few gods, etc. etc. These aforementioned Gods have two primary motives: survival and freedom. For the moment they have freedom, and their enemies are (ahem) in chaos; the Gods turn to individuals they -know- will be their allies -- the 'new humans', i.e. Dragaerans, and the old humans, who undoubtedly dislike the Jenoine because, well, would YOU want aliens coming by to abduct and experiment on your sister? ... if you live in a remote area that has experienced abductions, PLEASE don't answer that one. The Primary assistance comes from the experiments (i.e. Dragaerans) who, having been direct victims, of course team up. During the lull in which the Jenoine who survived/fled the GSoC detonation recover before trying to return, the Gods encourage the 5,000 tribes (okay, okay, 31 or whatever) of Dragaerans to get together -- via Zerika. Zerika most likely was one of (if not -the-) the most powerful Shamans of the Tribes; she, possibly Sethra, maybe a Serioli, and maybe Verra (I don't recall if Verra was there, so someone can correct me if they want...) get together and create the Orb. This has the following effects: 1) The Orb, tapping the GSoC, feeds back into it, rendering it (essentially) immune to the influence of the Jenoine. 2) The Gods, tapping both the 'safe' power of the Orb and the 'dangerous' power of the Great Sea, create the Paths of the Dead between this world and 'the next', so that they can sift through the Dragaeran souls. (Humans aren't quite as useful is my conjecture -- more for the 'mass worship' power source than being actual tools.) 3) The Dragaerans gain a tap on a vast source of power, lowering/eliminating the risk of another such 'accident'; to ensure that it doesn't happen TOO often, Zerika outlaws 'elder sorcery', offering a link to the orb to everyone who agrees with her. This, incidentally, sets up ... 4) Zerika becomes the First Empress, forming the Empire of Dragaera, with noble houses and yadda yadda yadda. Why her? Because she had the tap on power, duh. He who has 'the gold' makes the rules, and Zerika had the gold, as well as a friend -- a brother? -- with a big-assed sword who was quite willing to 'debate with' the Council of Shamans at swordpoint to get 100% conformation to Zerika's idea. (This is what Zerika knew, or expected, or hoped, was going to happen. I suspect Sethra was just hoping that everyone wouldn't kill each other.) Once the Shamans agreed, they could influence the other leaders of the tribes, etc. etc. And EVERYONE could link with the Orb: voila', we have an Empire. Please note: the Dragaerans, during this last step, were under attack by other tribes of humans -- Easterners. Clearly someone 'on the other side' decided that the abominations made by the Jenoine shouldn't continue to exist, or that they were going to pose a major threat, or whatever. Dolivar & Crew (aka the House of the Jhereg) made Our Warlord Kieron (no, I DON'T think he was emperor, though he might've been the first Dragon emperor...) promise to include them in the agreement in exchange for scouting and spying services; Kieron gets to have LOTS of problems with the other tribes in enforcing this. I figure that when he died and went down to the Paths (being honorable), he commanded/cajoled/forced the Gods to create the physical representation of the Cycle, and made sure the Jhereg were on the wheel. Once the Empire got started, though, it -had- to expand. So they did, right out through Serioli and Easterner tribes, conquering and kicking ass, all with the encouragement and support of Our Lords (and Ladies) of Judgement. A few of the Lords, I imagine, circulate through the Easterners, to gain influence on THAT side of the coin, too; it never hurts to make EVERYONE you can your ally. Unfortunately, during that 'expansion phase', plenty of Serioli villages get the torch; the Serioli, not being stupid, can see that it's not the Dragaerans' fault, but that of the LoJ, who are encouraging this expansion in order to widen their own power base. The Easterners are no help, of course, 'cause too many of them are already agog over the LoJ. So where does a good, vengance-seeking Serioli turn in order to find help? The Jenoine. The Jenoine and the Serioli get together, and one genius Serioli smith (named in Issola, I don't remember what it is) figures out how to make one of their weapons not only -want- to cut, but even want to do other things -- i.e., how to bind a sentience previously in a human (or Dragaeran, or Serioli, or Jenoine -- or whatever) form into a very, very well-made (i.e. powerful) weapon of their manufacture, i.e. Morganti. After some experimentation, and probably a few failures, you have a Great Weapon -- say, 'Wand-In-The-Form-Of-A-Sword-For-Creating-Death', aka Blackwand, whose primary purpose is, let's face it, killing as many thousands of opponents it can. ('Infantry battalion disguised as a sword', I think Vlad understates once.) So they create others -- Pathfinder (what was it, 'Artifact for Finding When The Path Is True'?), Godslayer/Lady Teldra ('Artifact for Removal Of Aspects of Diety'), Iceflame, and others. Side note: I find it interesting that we never find out the Serioli name of Iceflame; it would, I expect, be REALLY telling about what power Dzur Mountain represents, how it got there, etc. My personal pet theory is that it was the first (and probably enormous) stockpile by the Jenoine for cracking back against the Lords of Judgement -- but someone slipped up, and Sethra got the one and only key. 'Take that, Bambridge Scholars!!' Likely the first time the Gods were 'informed' of the existence of the Great Weapons is, perhaps, when they were first used. A possible scenario might go like this: in concert, three or four Great Weapons are brought to a place where Verra can be often found, perhaps in the Paths of the Dead. This is the plan: one is used to clear away the riff-raff (Iceflame), one is used to trace the way between starting point and destination (Pathfinder), one is used to take down defenses and -- this is important -- eliminate the capability for the deity to split their essence, i.e. pin them down completely (Godslayer), and one is used to perform the coup de grace, utterly destroying the deity (Blackwand). Godslayer slays the 'god' part, you see; it doesn't kill the being, but rather, as the Serioli put it, 'removes aspects of diety' -- making yon god(dess) mortal once more. This scares the everliving shit out of Verra & Co., who put three of the four weapons into the hands of trusted retainers, err, lackeys, errr ... Dragaerans, and take the critical one -- Godslayer -- and rip it apart. Doesn't destroy it, but there you go. Anyhow. I don't remember if I even covered everything that I wanted to cover, but that's most of it. Oh yes, -- in FHYA, Iceflame is not mentioned by name, but is -definitely- mentioned by implication -- re-read the scene where Aliera and Sethra meet for the first time. 'I know that I have a greatsword to your dagger, but knowing something about that dagger, I believe I do you the honor of not overmatching you,' or something to that effect -- Aliera acknowledging that she with a greatsword against Sethra with Iceflame would, well, be 'at best' an even match. I wonder if Aliera and Sethra ever had that duel. For some reason, I think they did, Aliera with Kieron's Greatsword vs. Sethra and Iceflame. I can also clearly picture Sethra coolly defending herself until Aliera runs down, then politely (so to speak) asking, "Would you like to continue when you have regained your strength?" That or else letting Aliera slash, slash, clip a sliver of hair from her (to satisfy her honor), and then hammering her into oblivion, and giving her a couple of days to view life from the inside of Iceflame before revivifying her. "Don't piss me off again, little Dragon." Ahem. Hrm. Well... anyhow. :P Considering the implications, though, would -you- want to be called a 'yendi'? It's clearly used the way 'Machiavellian' tends to be -- generally an insult in casual conversation, but showing approval when describing a plot. Felix Eisen aka Thomas Crain