Dragaera

Dragaera and Shakespeare

Tue Feb 18 15:43:08 PST 2003

AFB but I suspect Khaavren to Piro is a response to (the almost-as-famous
and perhaps Shakespeare-derived) D'Artagnan pere to fils at the beginning
of The 3 Ms.

Anyway, I'm not too up on my Shakespeare, but maybe this list would enjoy
playing "What House are Shakespearean characters from" (in case this isn't
the nth time it was suggested).  For example, Iago is a Yendi, Othello a
Dzur, Perdita an Issola; maybe Hamlet's a Tiassa, Macbeth a Jhereg,
Macduff a Phoenix (mystic birth circumstances), Hermione also a Phoenix
(mystic rebirth)...

- Philip


On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, David Silberstein wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Philip Hart wrote:
>
> >I have just poked around on the web and find my interpretation of
> >punctuation is idiosyncratic, perhaps unique.  I'm nonetheless going
> >to stick with my flash stones.  For those seeking comprehension, the
> >problem below might be resolved by writing, "As a certain Issola
> >might put it, I am occasionally familiar..."
>
> But it *wasn't* a certain Issola (although I suppose it might have
> been).  It was a certain Polonius.  Although -- was it just me, or was
> Khaavren's advice to Piro also a take on that famous blessing? [1]
>
> Note that I had to look that up myself (I knew it was in Hamlet, but I
> couldn't remember whether Laertes said it, or someone said it to
> Laertes).  Which is a point: sometimes one paraphrases because one
> can't remember the exact quote or its source (and indeed, the original
> source may not be known [2]), and sometimes because the original is
> less appropriate than the paraphrase (in terms of changing second
> person to first person, or vice versa), and sometimes it's all of the
> above.  I suppose one could tack on "as somebody or other once said,
> approximately", but that seems clumsy, especially when one is trying
> to be brief and witty.
>
> Bah.  I will use whichever phrasing seems appropriate for the
> occasion.  Those that get it, get it.  Why do published authors
> get to have all the fun with unreferenced in-jokes and allusions?
>
> Although in this forum (going back to the previous paraphrase), it
> seemed unnecessary to reference the source when the source was SKZB.
>
> >
> >On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, David Silberstein wrote:
> >
> >> I am occasionally familiar; I have no wish to be by any means vulgar.
> >> Except when it is appropriate, of course.  ;-)
> >>
>
>
> [1] [Laying his hand on Laertes's head.]
>
>     And these few precepts in thy memory
>     Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
>     Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
> --> Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
>     Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
>     Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel;
>     But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
>     Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade. Beware
>     Of entrance to a quarrel; but, being in,
>     Bear't that the opposed may beware of thee.
>     Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice:
>     Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
>     Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
>     But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy:
>     For the apparel oft proclaims the man;
>     And they in France of the best rank and station
>     Are most select and generous chief in that.
>     Neither a borrower nor a lender be:
>     For loan oft loses both itself and friend;
>     And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
>     This above all,--to thine own self be true;
>     And it must follow, as the night the day,
>     Thou canst not then be false to any man.
>     Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!
>
>
> Heh, heh.  He said "dull thy palm with entertainment".
>
> [2] As in this case, it might be that it was not Billy S,
>     but rather the Earl of Oxford.  See?
>
>