In a message dated 12/4/2003 11:21:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time, gomi at pollywog.com writes: >>>>>>>>> and the idea that sex is somehow naturally sinful, and that "fallen > women" should suffer social sanctions, underlies opposition to > contraception and blanket vilification of mothers on welfare. You cannot be serious. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<< I'm perfectly serious. I don't know how old you are, but I remember the sexual revolution of the 60s very well (though a noncombatant); and the outrage that women could, thanks to the Pill, have sex whenever and with whomever they pleased, without the punishment of producing a bastard and being frowned on by respectable society. I'm not advocating promiscuity, or denying the existence of welfare fraud; but it was religious/moral outrage that fueled the flames. Not unlike the present attitude to AIDS and gay marriage. And what on earth, other than moral judgment, would justify the government, or anyone else, telling other people, even married ones, that they should not practice contraception if they choose? XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX >>>>>>Right. And Islam has been used to bolster such respected traditions as using high explosives to drive high-speed nails through small children and killing your own daughter when she won't commit suicide after being raped. I suspect, however, that you would not be so swift to heap opprobrium on that particular religion thereby. Affirm/deny? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deny absolutely. I chose Christianity as an example because I was considering religious effect on Western, not Middle Eastern, policies; and there has been entirely too much Muslim-bashing lately. I tend to agree with a lot of it, but it's lost a lot of its effect because of repetition. Also, there is some evidence that the "honor killings" are based on tribal culture rather than religion--not that that makes them less abhorrent. I hold no brief for Islam, largely because the supposed moderates do not denounce the killings you mention the way decent Protestant and Catholic leaders do with respect to the similar atrocities on both sides in Ulster; but there are different varieties of it, and some do not agree with the extremists. How could you possibly think that I, as a woman, would be less appalled by the extremities of Sharia law, knowing that it is women who suffer the most from it? talpianna