in the words of bill the cat of bloom county mr. tripp ru sso pfffft. andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Angelo Tripp-Russo" <michaelangelo at tripp-russo.com> To: <dragaera at dragaera.info> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:17 AM Subject: Re: Geography: Two Maps > I've seen a "Maybe that's Dragaera" map hanging on a wall you might > call his. > > But then again I could be lying. > > > bonham15 wrote: > > >you know the horrid thing? steven may have a map of the whole shootin' match > >sitting at home on a drafting board gathering dust.. > > > >andy > > > > > > > > > >>Okay, I spent about 5 hours a night for the last 2 weeks getting to > >> > >> > >version > > > > > >>.1 of the map. > >> > >>I spent my breaks today at work debating how to tackle documenting the > >>process, and to be honest, I'm not even sure where to start. > >> > >>There are really two maps here: > >> > >>1. The map I felt the text supported at its most literal interpretation. > >> > >>2. The map I "saw" in my head after studying the 500 or so text reference > >> > >> > >I > > > > > >>pulled out of the novels concerning geography. > >> > >>These two maps are not as similar as you might think, and the map on my > >> > >> > >site > > > > > >>is more 1 than 2. > >> > >>Philip Hart brought up a couple of good points last night after looking > >> > >> > >over > > > > > >>the map. He had two main issues: > >> > >>1. The Empire is too narrow east to west. > >> > >>2. The Pepperfields should be closer to Redface. > >> > >>Let me address these two issues first, because, really, I agree with him > >>100%. It's just that I'm not entirely certain the text does. > >> > >>1. How Wide is the Empire? > >> > >>Kana is 1500 miles from Adrilankha (POTD pg 120). So draw a circle around > >>Adrilankha, and as you move Kana west, you must also move it south. > >>Northport is a few hundred miles from Kana (I used 200 miles; it felt > >> > >> > >right) > > > > > >>and the Kanefthali River Valley is to the north (BOA pg 285-286). So as > >> > >> > >you > > > > > >>move Kana west and south, you move Northport west and south as well. > >> > >>Blackbirdriver (Ibronka's home) is approximately 945 miles southwest of > >> > >> > >Kana > > > > > >>(POTD pg 217). So again, you have to move Blackbirdriver south as you > >> > >> > >move > > > > > >>Kana to the west. > >> > >>Hartre is south of Blackbirdriver (POTD pg 217 again), and 500km west of > >>Adrilankha (POTD pg 307). As you move Blackbirdriver to the west and > >> > >> > >south, > > > > > >>the angle between it and Hartre becomes more and more extreme. > >> > >>As much as I wanted to move Kana west, it made more sense to put it almost > >>due north of Adrilankha, even though that doesn't "feel" right. > >> > >> > >>So, if I can't move Kana west, perhaps I can "stretch" out the continent > >> > >> > >to > > > > > >>the east. > >> > >>Redface is described as being East of Dragaera City, and apparently almost > >>directly east, as Khaavren and crew debate whether they should go north > >>around Suntra or south around Suntra, which implies that Suntra is > >>immediately between DC and RF. > >> > >>However, Redface is 1500 miles from Dzur Mountain (POTD pg 300). Again, > >>draw the circle, if I put it east of DC, it has to be WAY east of DC. > >> > >>This does widen the continent quite a bit, but Deathgate Falls, in the Ash > >>Mountains, which are a part of the Eastern Mountains, is almost directly > >>north of Arylle (LOCB pg 83-84). > >> > >>It's entirely possible that the Eastern mountains are shaped like a huge > >>bow, with the tips far to the west from the Eastmost extermity, but I > >>couldn't find any text that supported this, and moreover the map in > >>Brokedown Palace shows the mountains bowing the OPPOSITE direction... > >> > >>When Sethra is explaining the journey from Dzur Mountain to Deathgate > >> > >> > >Falls > > > > > >>(POTD pg 243-245), she points out that the last time they cross the > >> > >> > >Eastern > > > > > >>River (which has its source at Redface) it is only 20 miles from there to > >>the foot of the Ash Mountains. Unless the Eastern River runs north for > >>quite a distance, then curves back and goes south, that puts Redface and > >>Deathgate Falls on similar latitudes. > >> > >>To further back this, Deathgate Falls is 1000 miles from the nearest sea > >>(BOT pg 161), and North Pinewood Hold (just north of Redface) is also 1000 > >>miles from the sea (POTD pg 312). Again, if I rotated Redface around the > >>1500 miles circle, that would bring the North Pinewood Hold to the south > >> > >> > >as > > > > > >>well. > >> > >>So I kept Deathgate Falls due north, and Redface marginally to the east of > >>the Falls, which makes Redface northeast (north-northeast, really) of > >>Dragaera City, and really tightens up the east side of the empire. > >> > >>As I pointed out in an earlier email, I violated the "no sea within a 1000 > >>miles of Deathgate Falls" with my western coast around Kana. It now > >> > >> > >occurs > > > > > >>to me that perhaps that was the sea Vlad was talking about, and Deathgate > >>Falls and North Pinewood Hold are both 1000 miles from DIFFERENT bodies of > >>water. > >> > >>But that "score of miles from the eastern river to the Ash Mountains" > >> > >> > >quote > > > > > >>is still a problem. > >> > >>I agree with Phillip so strongly, however, that I am strongly considering > >>having another go at this, and moving Kana west and Redface east as far as > >>possible without grossly violating the text. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>2. How far is Pepperfield from Redface. > >> > >>Twice the distance is declared, and both times it is 50 leagues, which > >> > >> > >works > > > > > >>out to 150 miles, I believe (TPG pg 154/155 and 277). > >> > >>However, in the same breathe the distance is measured as "2-days by the > >>horsepaths" or "1-day by foot". > >> > >>Mica thinks he can run the distance in 16 hours, and Garland/Shaltre think > >>they can make half the distance in 9 hours. > >> > >>The World Record for the 100km marathon is a little over 6 hours > >> > >> > >> > >(http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/records/gender=M/allrecords/discipline=100K / > > > > > >>index.html), which works out to 10 miles per hour, which is the same rate > >>Mica would be travelling. > >> > >>Of course, I believe the marathon is over mostly level ground, but then > >>again, Dragaerans have longer strides than Easterners (no text, but I > >>believe in "Taltos" Vlad notes that Morrolan limits his strides so that > >> > >> > >Vlad > > > > > >>can keep up). > >> > >>This was one of the most frustrating passages in all the novels. It takes > >>Piro two weeks to travel only 50 miles more in LOCB (Adrilankha to Dzur > >>Mountain is about 200 miles). > >> > >>I feel very strongly the true distance is more like 50 miles, maybe even > >>less, but I did not want to challenge the text except as a last resort, so > >> > >> > >I > > > > > >>left it at 150 miles. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Bryan Newell (http://bryann.net) > >>The sign out front promised me absolutely nothing. Just my kind of place. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >