On Mar 16, 2004, at 19:31 , Mark A Mandel wrote: > *** Nitpick alert! *** > > On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Matthew Klahn wrote: > > #It seems to me that Great Cycles wouldn't merge nicely if you had > #discreet endings of Phoenix reigns and discreet beginnings of another. > > Would you explain what you mean by that? Tortaalik's reign certainly > didn't end discr<eet>ly -- "unnoticeably" or "unobtrusively", > according > to M-W Online. Sorry, I meant "discrete", but must have misspelled it (and the auto-spell checker blessed the word, so I didn't check carefully): Discrete \Dis*crete"\, a. [L. discretus, p. p. of discernere. See Discreet.] 1. Separate; distinct; disjunct. --Sir M. Hale. 2. Disjunctive; containing a disjunctive or discretive clause; as, ``I resign my life, but not my honor,'' is a discrete proposition. 3. (Bot.) Separate; not coalescent; -- said of things usually coalescent. If you have a clear separation between Phoenix reigns, then you would have _2_ Phoenix reigns in a cycle: descending Phoenix -- BEGINNING OF CYCLE X Dragon ... etc ... Athyra ascending Phoenix -- END OF CYCLE X descending Phoenix -- BEGINNING OF CYCLE Y Dragon ... etc ... While the poem does say basically this, I always envisioned the cycle as more: Phoenix (ascends, then descends) -- END OF CYCLE W, BEGINNING OF CYCLE X Dragon ... etc ... Athyra Phoenix (ascends, then descends) -- END OF CYCLE X, BEGINNING OF CYCLE Y Dragon ... etc ... And, not to start a whole different argument, but since Kieron was a Dragon, wouldn't the cycle have started with Dragon at the top? Or was he not the first emperor? Is this mentioned anywhere? > One Emperor dies and is taken to Deathgate Falls > with appropriate mourning, and the House's Heir takes the Orb with > proper ceremony. Clearly distinguished, as part of a smooth transition. Yes, but that wouldn't be two cycles. So, take your example of Lyorn: if the Lyorn empress died and the heir was to step up & become emperor/empress, it would still be one Lyorn reign. I think this is the same with each Phoenix emperor/empress: In the case of Tortaalik & Zerika, it was all one Phoenix reign, the cycle didn't turn but a new Great Cycle was begun. It's just that the same Phoenix reign happened to be the end of one Great Cycle and the beginning of another. Sorry I wasn't more clear on what the heck I meant. -- Matthew S. Klahn Software Architect, CodeTek Studios, Inc. http://www.codetek.com